For English class, we read an excerpt from Rock Lobster: A Story About Growing up Gay.
In class, we were put into groups of 4 and given discussion questions. My school is pretty accepting of gays, but one of my classmates was saying some interesting things. I was a bit confused by her intent:
1) She kept saying “gayness” instead of “homosexuality.”
2) She said that Day of Silence is not about building acceptance. It's just a play for attention.
I would argue that Day of Silence is about drawing attention to gay rights issues and homophobia in a positive way, but she seemed to disagree. She said it was just an “in your face” day.
3) She continued on about how gays shouldn't get “more rights or privileges” than anyone else, which is something I agree with, but I failed to see how this is even an issue in the current day in age.
After the mini-discussion groups, we had only 6 minutes for a class-discussion.
Someone opened with the statement that my school has “acceptance without acknowledgment” of sexual diversity. I disagree because I think that the school is pretty good about supporting the GSA, Day of Silence, and covering alternative lifestyles in the health curiculum.
Some people also talked about how the small size may deter people from coming out because people feel that the news will travel so quickly and people will judge them. I actually agree with this, and I have seen it first hand.
However, some of my classmates said that my school is too visibly active about diversity. This classmate also said it in a very condescending way, and I thought it did not show good taste. Some went on to say that the school puts too much attention on the gay issue. My classmates hypothesized that gays don't want to be put on a pedestal as an example of equality. I actually agree with this statement to some extent, but I think that coming out is actually a big event, and my classmates failed to recognize that.
The most disturbing statement I heard was that my school is “accepting but too supportive” of gays. I think this may have been simply an example of poor word choice, but I have no way of knowing for sure. More people then went on to say that Day of Silence is just another “in your face” or “look at me” tactic that really means nothing. My classmates also talked about how the school is very accepting of gays and very open.
I had my hand raised during the entire discussion because I wanted to point out an interesting statistic:
Out of 400 high schoolers, there is only one openly gay student. I think this fact demonstrates that our school is not as open and accepting as some like to believe, and the school is certainly not “too supportive.”
34 comments:
you're right - statistically there are at least 40 others keeping their mouth shut
Personally, I don't understand the need to "come out" beyond answering a question when asked by anyone whose opinion you cherish. But then again, I'm not a huge fan of "in your face" demonstrations of any sort - they seem to be more self-serving than anything else. This might be where the girl in your class was coming from, but I bet she is not a fan of homosexuals.
Someday in the not too distant future, being (openly) gay or (openly) straight will not be a cause of conversation. The turning point (in the US) will be when the military accepts gay or bi (the military considers bisexuality as the same as homosexuality) service members. The military has always been on the edge of real social change in the US, and there is no reason why the "integration" of gays into the services would be any different than the acceptance of racial minorities and women. The change will not happen overnight, and there will always be knuckle-dragging bigots and religious nutcases who will never accept homosexuals (or minorities and women as equals.) Luckily, each new generation seems to be more and more tolerant of people's differences, and don't react with fear or hatred when they encounter someone not like themselves.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Sometimes people don't truly understand just how not accepting/supportive they are - they just think they are. It's an interesting thought-exercise, at any rate.
I wonder what would've happened if you said you were to hypothetically come out in the middle of class - how would your classmates react? And then have them examine their reactions and reflect truly on the meaning of acceptance and support.
What straights are offended by are the sort of bizarre public displays of gay sexuality which often characterize pride parades. They know what gays do in private, and they don't want to be reminded of it by a flatbed trailer full of leather studs simulating anal intercourse. Most folks don't want to see even heterosexual displays of affection in public, so why to gays think they will win the sympathy of the straight majority by losing all vestages of grace and dignity? That's what these kids are talking about. But I'll bet that if "J Carwin", who appears to be a smart, well mannered, and thoroughly decent fellow, told his classmates that he was gay, that he was born that way, that he wasn't into offending people, and that all he wanted from his classmates is the courtesy they'd afford any other human being, they'd want to hug him and tell you how courageous he is.
I am 100% for coming out, but I not convinced school is the best place.
Don't forget that "5 on the fifth" is only a few days away!
http://thestateofthenationuk.blogspot.com/
I'm in favour!
I got involved in fighting for our rights in the UK and sort of had to be out to all the people who were gay around me.
This made it much easier for me to tell my parents, family and other friends.
Once you start, coming out is simply about honesty.
Are you gay? Yes.
Not "I'm gay look at me!"
We should not have to do that.
But as long as people express the "it's OK if I keep my head down" sort of coming out - then there is a need for drag queens, leather men and all the demonstrations we can muster.
People have got to stop thinking that there's something wrong or regrettable about being gay.
It is only heterosexual bigots and our own less thoughtful friends sometimes who think there is
Your apologist girl could probably be turned into a fag hag is you or another boy she liked and respected were to come out. Don't you think?
When it comes to the Day of Silence I agree with my government teacher had once said to our class last year and we shouldn't have one but a Day of Discussion.
I think it needs to be talked about b/c they it is at my school seems to be we talk about why the kids are silent and how sad it is that some people can't come out. But it would be better to talk about why people can't come out and what we can do to change it and for those people who don't have religious reasons for not accepting gays see if we can change their minds.
I do wish that the in-your-face gays would knock it off b/c they make it harder for people like me who are gay but want people to know me for me not b/c I'm gay
Ethan I am in 100% in agreement with you. It shouldn't be a day of silence , but a day of discussion. Jason I am very impress with your blog and way of thinking, you give me hope. Not that I am comparing being black to being gay. But look at us on that issue, in the U.S. You well always have the backwards people that do not go for change. I feel the only way to come for is to get it out. Not for in the face tactic either. But in a postive way without being silence. We have come a long way but have a long way to go. I actually hate the pride stuff. I think a lot go to far with that and makes us step back. Not saying they don't have the right. I just don't feel it helps the movement . I mean I had small children , I didn't want they seeing some of the actions going on . But hell if it was striaght people doing the same thing , or wearing some of the same stuff I wouldn't want them to be expose to that untill later either . Thanks Jason keep up the work .... wish I had your skill of writing.
Thanks for the comments everyone. You all have such good ideas.
Ethan, I totally agree with your professor. In fact, my friend and I were talking about the same thing today. What's the point of spending a day in silence when really, we should be talking about it.
Thanks Just
The Day of Silence I believe has good intentions and I think it's great what it's trying to do but I think it's just not cutting it and I see it as another LGBT holiday and a good way for some kids to get out of talking all day
I think the Day of Silence is a very interesting concept. I also agree that a day of discussion would be preferable.
Consider this, though: religious and conservative groups get extremely bent-out-of-shape by the Day of Silence but are not, generally, able to prevent it.
Homosexuality, of course, should never be discussed at school (straight children would be unable to resist the enticing allure of homosexuality, so they must be protected). A Day of Discussion would send such people from the previous paragraph through the roof. There would quite likely be enough outrage generated that schools would ban any recognition of the day.
Solution, of sorts: try to get teachers to have class discussions the next day, when the wackos have moved onto fighting another horrible, horrible way we are attempting to destroy society.
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The girl mentioned at the beginning sounds like one of those folks who think anything we do that involves not completely hiding our sexual orientation is a play for attention.
Lately, I've been reading about how gays are adopting "trophy babies" just to get attention. Uh, excuse me? FUCK YOU.
If we had the wherewithall to have children, we would. Sometimes it really fucking hurts when I think about how I'd like to have kids but we're just not in the position to do so.
If gays just want babies as trophies, why do I sometimes have to flee to my car and cry if I'm out shopping and see two daddies with a son or daughter in tow?
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Bid for attention? If anyone's making a bid for attention, it's the people who claim to have "no problem" with us but then make comments like the young woman you mentioned.
"Look, at me! I'm so accepting! I just wish they would, you know, keep it to themselves."
jason said: "I think that the school is pretty good about supporting the GSA, Day of Silence, and covering ***alternative lifestyles*** in the health curriculum."
Use of that term "alternative lifestyles" is fraught with potential bias. My sexual orientation is not a lifestyle like a new suede sofa or a new bathroom color scheme. Alternative? Style changes with the seasons and generations. When WE use such amorphous phrases perhaps we buy into a heterosexual definition of who we are. "Homosexual lifestyle" implies a choice, like beige or tan curtains.
Some may think I am nutz, but language has great power. Words have meanings and if you closeted guys have ever cringed when you heard subtle linguistic slights about us, maybe you have an idea of what I am getting at.
A gay pride parade is intentionally outrageous just like Mardi Gras or more and more, Halloween. The latter two are socially tolerated chances for hets to be as silly or crazy or serious as one wants. Yes it is extreme. If ignorant people want to use a few floats to define all gays, too bad. Why should the drag queens have to temper their shtick? Or the pretty boys or the dykes on bikes? If it isn't Pride, a phobe/bigot will find something else to declaim.
Sometimes it seems like we subconsciously bend over backwards not to offend. PDAs bother you? Then stay home. I cant kiss my husband cuz u feel uncomfortable? Well dont look.
steevo in cali
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"If ignorant people want to use a few floats to define all gays, too bad. Why should the drag queens have to temper their shtick?"
That was a self answering question b/c at the moment gays are portrayed like this and that is all my parents think of when they think of gay people and I do NOT want them to think this I want them to see me but I can't do that if a bunch of drags are always popping up on t.v.
Now I know they have a right to do what they want that's fine I just wish it wasn't so in your face type feel b/c this will not help me when I try to come out.
Good point, Steevo! I hate the term "homosexual lifestyle."
Even more, though, I dislike the term "sexual preference."
A preference implies choice. I like both cauliflower and brocolli. Given a choice, though, I prefer the latter.
Conversely, an orientation is not a choice. A compass doesn't point northward 'cause it prefers that to pointing a different direction. It points northward because its orientation directs its attraction in that direction.
I like the term alternative lifestyles for some reasons.
First of all, it encompasses pretty much everything, which is nice because people are so diverse.
Also, the term alternative lifestyle does not automatically imply homosexual lifestyle, because you are right, that does not exist. Homosexuals all choose to live their lives in a myriad of different ways, but I think the term alternative lifestyles encompasses all these ways.
The fact of the matter is that a non-heterosexual position is alternative. In other words, it is different. Some people dislike this statement, but really they shouldn't. Different is not bad.
I do see your point about the implication of choice, and I agree that is a problem, but for now, it's much easier than going through the whole LGBT+additional letters situation.
Finally, you could argue that while homosexuality is not a choice, the way people live their lives is.
Also, I agree with Steevo about the unfair press that gay pride parades get. I think our society has shifted to the point where "normal" homosexuals are OK but "flambuoyant" ones are not.
It's the media that propagates the Pride-Parade-wild image of the gay world. If there weren't outrageous floats at Pride parades, the media would find something else sensationalistic on which to focus.
When we are presented in media as being "regular folks," straights don't accept it.
Look at Brokeback Mountain. Some people were infuriated at the suggestion that cowboys (well, sheepherders) were not all 100% straight down to the last man. Some people didn't accept Ennis and Jack as gay, but as just attracted to each other.
I've read plenty of comments on IMDB.com about the (excellent) gay surfer flick Shelter. People didn't believe the characters were gay because they were surfers and didn't act all effeminate.
The only way to really combat this is by being out. Society at large is not going to accept that we run the gamut from butch to femme to inbetween until they see enough of us in real life instead of just on the TV news every June.
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Alternate Lifestyle may not say "homosexual" to you, Jason, but to the vast majority of the straight world, I doubt it would be viewed as anything else.
The ever-expanding letters system is unwieldy, yes, but one need not use preference rather than orientation as a result. BTW, the latest I've heard is LGBTQQ (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Queer, Questioning).
I agree with Mr. HCI I think the media needs to stop focusing so much on Gay Pride gays b/c they don't represent the entire LGBT(QQ?) population but it's the only side that's mostly in the media
And we can't control the media, so that pretty much leaves being out and unashamed as the only way to counter the media's skewed presentation of us.
So true
I will never be ashamed of being gay but I need to figure out how to come out
Knowing the struggle you face in gaining acceptance, why give your political opponents ammunition? I'd put every gay man in a Savile Row suit if I thought it would win one of these referenda to eliminate discrimination. These "pride" displays are more than tasteless; they're irresponsible.
J: Have you ever actually been to a Pride parade? The media picks only the absolute most outrageous stuff to show the world.
At every Pride I've attended, the vast majority of the crowd were just regular folks. Regular folks aren't news, though, so they get ignored.
If the behavior of a minority of Pride event participants is gonna be held as an indicator of the general behavior of homosexuals, then it's only fair to assume all heterosexuals are sex-starved, promiscuous alcoholics, since that's what we see of Spring Break events on TV.
What did I say? Don't give them ammunition! The press always plays up the outrageous. Is it not irresponsible, then, for the self-indulgent among us to put on a spectacle of this sort? Gay or straight, these public displays are nothing but trashy, like the bush shots of Brittney Spears.
For straights they only serve to sell tabloids. For gays they falsely label an entire segment of the population that cannot be accepted until it is perceived as being respectible. I've made this comparison before, but believe it to be apt: Would Lyndon Johnson have been able to get the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, through the Congress if the civil rights movement had been led by H. "Rap" Brown rather than Martin King? For that matter, would King and Johnson have prevailed if the leadership of the South had not been stereotyped by the behavior of Bull Conner?
"What did I say? Don't give them ammunition!"
I think that it's disappointing that gays get portrayed this way, but I do not believe that the solution is to stop people from acting outrageous during pride parades.
A human being has the right to act however he/she may choose. To blame the speedo clad gays for the stereotypes we face is like blaming a rape victim for getting raped. It goes along with the "Well, what was she thinking wearing a skirt that short?" argument.
The real problem is the media and public desire to see controversial images. Of course, this is a problem that will not be solved soon. I think the best solution is to just stay the course and wait for more and more people to come out to show the world that we are in fact an incredibly diverse group.
"the speedo clad gays" now that's a nice thought lol
Ok being serious again how are supposed to come out when we are afraid people will reject us b/c they think we will be like the gays in the Pride events?
Those who are already out need to do something that will get the media's attention that those Pride groups do NOT represent the LGBT community.
Hey, in a free country everyone has the right to make a jackass of himself.
@Ethan: are you in a tiny Iowa town with just 7 teenage boys or what? ;-)
You r gonna love college. Are yer rents ranting 'phobes, super Jesus freeks, or ???
You seem so sure that people who know and love u will reject u if they find out u like boys best. Well, dude, that is rare. Read these blogs. I am new to your blog so maybe you have explained this already.
There is a thing called the law of thirds. For us queers it means: 1/3 despise us and would toss us on the pyre first. [numbers approximate.] Forget them. They cant change or r not worth the effort.
Middle third r not so stupid as to think Pride Party = all gays all th time.
They can be convinced. And working everyday with out gay people and HAVING SOME AS FRIENDS AND FAMILY is gonna count more than all the faggots in faerie fru frus in any Pride celebration. They know camp when they see it and r not likely to conclude that a few drunk or high gay boys means we are all hedonists all the time. They are not the first third crowd. They can thin and reason and WHEN THEY WATCH "Prayers for Bobby" it makes them pause and think. They also r repulsed by Rev Phelps and his ilk.
Iowa has gay marriage FFS!
But acceptace increases the more we r out and honest.
Middle third is not so sure. They r not ignorant brain dead inbred mouth breathers. They maybe dont care much one way or th other but way far right fag haters like Rev. Phelps turns them off off more than hott sweaty twink boys in too tight speedos on a float or skating as a contingent in Pride parades. [yes, yum]
The last third are well educated and/or learned tolerance early and are not afraid of "different" people. Last third often love us and grew up not bothered by differences and are tolerant by nature. They can and do love us and grew up not bothered by differences and are tolerant by nature. THEY GENERALLY KNOW LOTTA QUEERS AND LIKE THEM. This is a key. The more visible all of us are the less the parade hotties matter.
I disagree that most people think queers r all leather clad crazies simulating a good fuck in a parade.
For FFS look who emceed the Emmy Awards this year on national TV? Neil Patrick Harris, Doogie friggin Howser FFS! [cf wiki] ;-)
Remember that u will come out 1st to people who know u well, some who love u maybe.
They know you. They know u r not a speedo twinky skater... besides you could remind them if they seemed overwhelmed that u r the same guy they have always known and now they just know you like boys best.
But you have to be secure enough within yourself to pull it off. You hafta be 110% out to yourself first. And not feel that you must EARN respect and somehow erase the TV news Pride reports.
OK
enuf for now
we can email if u want
steevo
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The Day of Silence is symbolic. It is intended to make people think if they can! Once they r thinking, then you have a basis for discussion.
check it out
its about student safety FFS!
http://www.dayofsilence.org/index.cfm
Also:
http://www.allyweek.org/
And Pink Shirt Day ---great story how it started:
http://www.pinkshirtday.ca/
Ethan - you are spot-on. The mainstream gay "mafia" seems to value flamboyance and crave attention. It's almost like if you don't march in or attend a pride event, or otherwise act up, then you are not a member of the tribe. But be assured that there are tons of guys out there who are either gay or bisexual who share your opinion and distaste for extreme behavior. The path to acceptance comes from conformity, not from radicalism.
@Steevo
I need to reread your comment and email you to talk about what you said about the gay marriage
Next year is the Iowa elections and everyone is up for reelection and the gay marriage will be put to vote also. So at the moment I'm happy that it's legal now but don't expect it to stay like that
@ Anon
I don't think we should conform per say but I do think those Pride event end up being in your face b/c the media picks them up and honestly it's not helping the LGBT groups since those events usually have bad publicity
As I already said, it's the media that skews the image of us. Out of a parade of 100,000 participants and attendees, for example, they'll pick the few dozen acting up to show on TV.
Do I approve of the most extreme behavior? No. Guys walking around clad only in jockstraps, or less, is not appropriate in public.
Guys in speedos? If that's bad, we better shut down all the swimming pools and beaches across the world, as the majority of people there are dressed in skimpy outfits, rather than a minority. We also better stop allowing swimming and diving competitions, because 100% of the participants are practically naked and, on top of that, glistening and wet. Some of them wear such tiny suits, you can see almost everything.
lol, Mr. HCI is right.
I used to play water polo and swim, so trust me, I know.
I agree that to some extent the media is responsible for the perception of the gay community. When media attention is focused on extreme behavior, outrageous costumes, etc. because they a more "newsworthy," then public perception of gays is skewed. It can be argued however, that the very reason that some gays act out or dress up is to attract the media's attention - not unlike other demonstrators who kick it up a notch when the cameras show up.
This is an interesting thread.
wow what a long train of comments! what wanted to say has been said. but yeah, good points here.
Fellow So Cal student... went to high school here and just have to say my school was not at all accepting. There was a GSA on campus, but many of the kids were ostracized and were looked down upon by the general population. I was too scared to say anything in high school for fear of being called gay. Now, I don't know...
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